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Jeff,<br>
<br>
I am not trying to argue with you. Please re-read what I wrote. I am
simpy saying that many organizations will not allow, except for very
special circumstances, software components that are in alpha/beta
stages of development (or appear to be so, as is the case with sub-1.0
releases) to be deployed to their servers. If some mission-critical
software has dependencies on pre-1.0 releases, that cannot be avoided.
But I cannot justify to my management the use of a pre-1.0 logback when
log4j/SLF4J is still sufficient for most purposes. This has nothing to
do with marketing nor what I personally value. And yes, of course I
know who Ceki is and respect all that he has done, and I have used (and
made small contributions to) log4j and SLF4J since their early releases.<br>
<br>
Again, thanks to Ceki and all contributors,<br>
Ari<br>
<br>
Jeff Jensen wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:000001cb4cbc$a17122e0$e45368a0$@org" type="cite">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
may be right? Just look at the Logback home page and see
a few projects using it, e.g. SpringSource’s dm Server.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You
place too much value in a marketing thing – a release
number!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You
are also confusing authors of work – I am a fan and
user of SLF4J and Logback. All credit goes to Ceki and associates.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">For
stability concerns, you should review the Logback history
with its genesis from Log4j. You do know Ceki, the Logback founder, is
also the founder of Log4j?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">‘nuff
said…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:logback-user-bounces@qos.ch">logback-user-bounces@qos.ch</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:logback-user-bounces@qos.ch">mailto:logback-user-bounces@qos.ch</a>] <b>On
Behalf
Of </b>Ari Meyer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 04, 2010 8:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> logback users list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [logback-user] 1.0 release date?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Jeff,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">You may be right about that (though I haven't
seen it pulled
down as a dependency for my Maven builds, yet...), but large
organizations
often don't see things the way you and I do. They won't ditch an
acceptable, stable log4j for what *appears* to be a beta. After over 4
years of active development, though, it seems reasonable to expect
multiple
full releases of something as relatively small in scope as a logging
framework. The fact that we don't see a 1.0 yet perhaps indicates
over-perfectionism. This often happens with other OSS projects (JDOM
being a notable case of this, as I remember). For our sake, please
just
get to a reasonably stable build and label it "1.0". We'll
expect bug fixes and minor API changes, of course, as that's natural,
and new
features can be released incrementally.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Are there some must-have features that have yet
to be
implemented? It would be nice if the FAQ were updated for this, along
with a high-level road map.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for all for the hard work!<br>
Ari<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Jeff Jensen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jjensen@apache.org">jjensen@apache.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just because the release number begins with a
value < 1
doesn't mean it is<br>
in beta. Lots and lots of products around the world use SLF4J and
Logback<br>
in production operations, and I bet including some of the FOS
frameworks you<br>
are using!<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:logback-user-bounces@qos.ch">logback-user-bounces@qos.ch</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:logback-user-bounces@qos.ch">logback-user-bounces@qos.ch</a>]
On<br>
Behalf Of Ari Meyer<br>
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 8:09 AM<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:logback-user@qos.ch">logback-user@qos.ch</a><br>
Subject: [logback-user] 1.0 release date?<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
We'd like to switch from log4j to logback, but can't use beta releases.<br>
logback has been in development for over 4 years now -- any idea when<br>
we'll see a 1.0 release?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Ari<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Logback-user mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Logback-user@qos.ch">Logback-user@qos.ch</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://qos.ch/mailman/listinfo/logback-user" target="_blank">http://qos.ch/mailman/listinfo/logback-user</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Logback-user mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Logback-user@qos.ch">Logback-user@qos.ch</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://qos.ch/mailman/listinfo/logback-user" target="_blank">http://qos.ch/mailman/listinfo/logback-user</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
_______________________________________________
Logback-user mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Logback-user@qos.ch">Logback-user@qos.ch</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://qos.ch/mailman/listinfo/logback-user">http://qos.ch/mailman/listinfo/logback-user</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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