<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>I think you are using the wrong criteria. SLF4J and Logback are certainly production ready. I have projects using them in production systems. The version number is not a great way to determine that. IMO, what is more important is the health of the community and availability of support. In some ways this community is very healthy as there is a fair amount of activity on the mailing lists. However, with only a single person with commit access you do need to be aware that there is a serious supportability problem with SLF4J and Logback. However, I am sure Ceki is willing to accept contracts to fix any bugs you might encounter. You can also ask the rest of us for help, but the best we can do is to fix the bug in a fork somewhere and try to get Ceki to incorporate it.<div><br></div><div>Having said that, the situation with Log4j isn't a lot better at the moment. Log4j 1.2 is ancient and has severe problems and Log4j 2.0 is still in the stages of experimental code.</div><div><br></div><div>Ralph</div></div><br><div><div>On Sep 5, 2010, at 12:33 AM, Ari Meyer wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Jeff,<br>
<br>
I am not trying to argue with you. Please re-read what I wrote. I am
simpy saying that many organizations will not allow, except for very
special circumstances, software components that are in alpha/beta
stages of development (or appear to be so, as is the case with sub-1.0
releases) to be deployed to their servers. If some mission-critical
software has dependencies on pre-1.0 releases, that cannot be avoided.
But I cannot justify to my management the use of a pre-1.0 logback when
log4j/SLF4J is still sufficient for most purposes. This has nothing to
do with marketing nor what I personally value. And yes, of course I
know who Ceki is and respect all that he has done, and I have used (and
made small contributions to) log4j and SLF4J since their early releases.<br>
<br>
Again, thanks to Ceki and all contributors,<br>
Ari<br>
<br>
Jeff Jensen wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:000001cb4cbc$a17122e0$e45368a0$@org" type="cite">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.BalloonTextChar
{mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"Balloon Text";
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
may be right? Just look at the Logback home page and see
a few projects using it, e.g. SpringSource’s dm Server.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You
place too much value in a marketing thing – a release
number!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You
are also confusing authors of work – I am a fan and
user of SLF4J and Logback. All credit goes to Ceki and associates.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">For
stability concerns, you should review the Logback history
with its genesis from Log4j. You do know Ceki, the Logback founder, is
also the founder of Log4j?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">‘nuff
said…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:logback-user-bounces@qos.ch">logback-user-bounces@qos.ch</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:logback-user-bounces@qos.ch">mailto:logback-user-bounces@qos.ch</a>] <b>On
Behalf
Of </b>Ari Meyer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 04, 2010 8:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> logback users list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [logback-user] 1.0 release date?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">Hi Jeff,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">You may be right about that (though I haven't
seen it pulled
down as a dependency for my Maven builds, yet...), but large
organizations
often don't see things the way you and I do. They won't ditch an
acceptable, stable log4j for what *appears* to be a beta. After over 4
years of active development, though, it seems reasonable to expect
multiple
full releases of something as relatively small in scope as a logging
framework. The fact that we don't see a 1.0 yet perhaps indicates
over-perfectionism. This often happens with other OSS projects (JDOM
being a notable case of this, as I remember). For our sake, please
just
get to a reasonably stable build and label it "1.0". We'll
expect bug fixes and minor API changes, of course, as that's natural,
and new
features can be released incrementally.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">Are there some must-have features that have yet
to be
implemented? It would be nice if the FAQ were updated for this, along
with a high-level road map.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for all for the hard work!<br>
Ari<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Jeff Jensen <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jjensen@apache.org">jjensen@apache.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">Just because the release number begins with a
value < 1
doesn't mean it is<br>
in beta. Lots and lots of products around the world use SLF4J and
Logback<br>
in production operations, and I bet including some of the FOS
frameworks you<br>
are using!<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:logback-user-bounces@qos.ch">logback-user-bounces@qos.ch</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:logback-user-bounces@qos.ch">logback-user-bounces@qos.ch</a>]
On<br>
Behalf Of Ari Meyer<br>
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 8:09 AM<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:logback-user@qos.ch">logback-user@qos.ch</a><br>
Subject: [logback-user] 1.0 release date?<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
We'd like to switch from log4j to logback, but can't use beta releases.<br>
logback has been in development for over 4 years now -- any idea when<br>
we'll see a 1.0 release?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Ari<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Logback-user mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Logback-user@qos.ch">Logback-user@qos.ch</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://qos.ch/mailman/listinfo/logback-user" target="_blank">http://qos.ch/mailman/listinfo/logback-user</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Logback-user mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Logback-user@qos.ch">Logback-user@qos.ch</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://qos.ch/mailman/listinfo/logback-user" target="_blank">http://qos.ch/mailman/listinfo/logback-user</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<pre wrap=""><hr size="4" width="90%">
_______________________________________________
Logback-user mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Logback-user@qos.ch">Logback-user@qos.ch</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://qos.ch/mailman/listinfo/logback-user">http://qos.ch/mailman/listinfo/logback-user</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>Logback-user mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Logback-user@qos.ch">Logback-user@qos.ch</a><br>http://qos.ch/mailman/listinfo/logback-user<br></blockquote></div><br></body></html>